January 27, 2005

From here to there - continuing with gun culture

Ah ha! I wondered how long it would take Mr. Gun Culture himself to blog me about the head with his own posting on my Gun Culture and how we might get it back musings.

I stand by much of what I wrote on the subject, particularly the reasons why gun culture has all but vanished (though no one has really called me out on that one yet) but there do seem to be a number of areas of contention.

The central theme to my position can be summed up by this one sentence in my posting:

I think that people do have the innate right to have guns for self defence but I do not believe that, in general, the population is prepared for it.
I stand by that. If it were down to me and I could flick a switch that would allow anyone (without a criminal record lets say for arguments sake and also, say, at or over the age of 18 or 21) to go out and buy a gun and keep it at home or carry it about in public would I flick that switch? No. I don’t think I would.

The thrust of my article then went on with the theme of how people might become prepared.

I said:

A structured approach to the rebuilding of a gun culture in the UK would get my support and a gradual re-introduction of general firearms ownership might well be possible but I do not think that this is something the state will ever subscribe to.
To elaborate on this let’s consider a situation where the state, due to political pressure from the people decide to embark upon a structured approach to general gun ownership by those who would choose to take up arms for the purposes of self defence (basically the politicians are persuaded that there is political capital in supporting the re-introduction of a gun culture). Let’s say the state, as stage one, began to issue licenses for gun ownership on the pre-requisite that prospective owners passed a proficiency test. This is an example of the kind of structured approach I would support. More than this, I would endeavour to get qualified to join any training team and do my bit.

Remember, the issue that I have is that it is my opinion that the general population (of course with exceptions) is not prepared for ownership not that I don’t believe in the actual concept of general ownership. As Giles in the comments said, it’s all about how we get from here to there.

I do not think that this is something the state will ever subscribe to I said. Anyone who would agree with this particular statement is left with a dilemma.

If the state does not subscribe to practical measures that would re-introduce a beneficial gun culture ie a preparedness to own firearms then what else will?

My suggestion that the only alternative is the shooting sports is a bleak one. I fully accept that. If it is the only alternative I do not expect it to work out, but I wrote that it might:

What might do it is sporting shooting.
How might it? If it ever became really big business perhaps, but who really knows.

The real killer for me was when I wrote this:

A consistent increase in the use of firearms for sporting purposes is, in my opinion, the only way that a gun culture can ever be reintroduced into the UK.
If one accepts that the state will never subscribe to a re-introduction then I believe this to be true. I would like to hear of any other suggestions given that as a premise. I never said that it is likely to succeed.

I think the real area of contention, the very core of the issue is how pessimistic or optimistic you are about the likelihood of the state deciding that the public should be armed for reasons of self defence. Currently I am pessimistic. This led me to look for an alternative method of reintroducing gun culture. That does not say that I would not do what I can to alter that likelihood. I will still, on occasion, write about how this or that persons life could have been saved if they had a gun or, perhaps, another sufficient item of self defence. My position is not, I think, incompatible with that. Again, it’s about how we get from here to there. Perhaps, some time in the future, and perhaps with continued contribution by bloggers, writers in the Telegraph, authors and anyone else who catches the groove I will become more optimistic. Who knows? Don’t confuse pessimism with a lack of desire to contribute to the debate and, perhaps, help make sunshine where there is none at present.

Lurch at gunculture.net ends his post with:

To summarise; I believe that sporting shooting is doomed in the UK and no amount of good behaviour will change this. The recognition that self defence is the most basic human right that there is and that a firearm is the best tool for this is the only thing which can possibly save private firearm ownership. Not just in the UK but across the globe.
He may well be right.

If pessimism were a duck, we’d all be spitting lead shot.

Posted by John at January 27, 2005 02:33 PM | TrackBack
Comments

Aren't we a pair of miserable beggars!
What does it say of us that we are pessimistic and yet we fight on because we believe that the cause is just? Are we noble souls or daft 'ap'orths who should get out more?

Posted by: Lurch at January 27, 2005 04:09 PM

We're lone gun nuts remember. Even if we wanted to get out more we'd be hard pushed to find a friend to go out with. Mwaahahahaha.

Posted by: JohnJo at January 27, 2005 05:04 PM

The UK NRA (not, so far, much of a campaigning organisation) is having an open day at Bisley on the 30th of April, where anyone who isn't a prohibited person will be able to shoot more or less anything (still) legal. I'm taking 8 new shooters. Every little helps...

Posted by: John Daragon at January 27, 2005 10:49 PM

I learned to shoot in the cadets (CCF) in the 60s at school - good WW1 Lee-Enfields in .22 and .303, I could barely lift one :)
Does CCF still exist ?
It was great fun and I've recently resumed target shooting, having a Ruger 10/22 and a SKS (obviously I no longer live in UK).

Posted by: PG at January 28, 2005 03:51 AM

I'm interested in this idea that we should reintroduce a gun culture into the UK. When did it diminish in the first place? And what benefits do you think it will bring? Personally, the equation 'guns = death' always makes me think twice about the logic that says we are safer with guns around. Look at the states, or S Africa, or anywhere where there are a lot of guns.

Posted by: Dan at January 28, 2005 08:54 AM

There's a lot of guns around in Switzerland, France and Belgium, and the corpses are hardly piled high on the streets ...

Posted by: JonT at January 28, 2005 09:48 AM

"Look at the states, or S Africa, or anywhere where there are a lot of guns."

Ok, let's look her at my home, the USA. You do know that most gun law is passed at the state level, right? And that most gun violence occurs in those states where gun control is the tightest? Where there ISN'T really a gun culture among law-abiding people? Indeed, how would you square perception that "gun culture/lots of guns" = more violent crime with the fact that the tightest gun laws in the US are in the District of Columbia, but DC for a long time was the murder capital of the country? How do you also explain, for example, that any state that has enacted concealed-carry legislation has almost immediately seen a drop in violent crime?

Good luck to all of you in the UK who are doing something to change this far-gone situation.

Posted by: Dave J at January 28, 2005 03:30 PM